Why churn and retention always come back to your user onboarding experience and how to improve it

Ryan Glasgow


Founder and CEO


Ryan Glasgow
Ryan Glasgow

Episode Summary

Today on the show we have Ryan Glasgow, CEO and founder of Sprig.

In this episode, we talked about the pros and cons of the different stages of company growth, how Ryan took his experience at the 0 to 1 stage to build out Sprig and how Sprig solves the tension between user research and the speed at which product teams move today.

We also discussed why churn and retention always comes back to user onboarding, how you can determine which action to focus on for your onboarding experience and the considerations to be made between single-player mode and multiplayer mode during onboarding.

Mentioned Resources



The pros and cons of the different stages of company growth 00:01:36
How Ryan took his experience working in the 0 to 1 phase to build out Sprig 00:04:50
How Sprig solves for the tension between user research and the speed at which product moves 00:07:43
How Sprigs research practice has evolved over time to focus on specific user segments 00:12:05
Why churn and retention always comes back to user onboarding 00:13:54
What is mixed methods research and the benefits of bringing qualitative and quantitative research together. 00:18:16
Ryan lays out the best onboarding experiences he has seen through all his years of reviewing onboarding experiences 00:22:55
How to determine which action to focus on for user onboarding (Single player vs Multi-player) 00:26:38


[00:01:28] Andrew Michael: Hey, Ryan. Welcome to the show. 

[00:01:31] Ryan Glasgow: Thanks for having me. 

[00:01:33] Andrew Michael: It's a pleasure for the listeners. Ryan is the founder and CEO at Sprig, formerly, usually an all in one product research platform that allows you to capture in the moment insights from actual users. With video interviews, concept tests, the micro surveys prior to founding spray grind started his career in web development and served as a group product manager at Weebly.

It was acquired by square. There was also a founding team member and product manager at verb that was acquired by Snapchat and helped other product management and product [00:02:00] design roles at graft signs, shop apparel and extra bucks. So my first question for you, Ryan is what stage of a company's growth do you enjoy the most?

You've been through a few acquisitions in companies go from forty, funded employees, like where's your sweet spot. 

[00:02:16] Ryan Glasgow: That's a great question, prior to

Sprig and actually, spring itself, it's always been in that zero to one phase. And so helping companies in many cases write their first lines of code, get their first users, get their first paying customers.

That's how it was at verb. Extra box, graph science very early on as well, a company. Involved with very early on live fire there, it was acquired by Adobe. It was also pre-product had not launched yet and really was involved in the first version of that product. And so most of my experience, including with Sprague has been really that zero to one phase.

We believe it was the only standout where it was already a fantastic business that was growing quickly and helped really scale that company to around 50 million accounts. When I left. [00:03:00] And what is it about if you had to compare the two going into weirdly like scaling versus zero to one.

[00:03:08] Andrew Michael: Which part do you enjoy most? And what would you say is one of the bigger differences between the two, 

[00:03:14] Ryan Glasgow: the zero to one phase is, can be very frustrating. And I've actually almost considered this analogy where you're standing in the middle of a forest and you don't know which way to go. You're lost and every direction looks the same.

You could probably talk to a lot of early stage founders and they really have that feeling of, there's so many different directions you can go in the early days and there's so many different other products out there. And, maybe with Avrio in the early days, building that product or past experience as you might've sensed, 180 degrees and in, in really any direction could be a viable path.

And so the challenge though is also appealing. I unfortunately like really difficult challenges. And so for better or for worse, And so the zero to one has always been their most rewarding for me, really digging out of and [00:04:00] finding that path when you're lost in that forest and starting that company.

But I'll say the hypergrowth is also the most fun as well. And so that's what stood out about Weebly is that prior to Weebly, I had four experiences of zero to one that were just very difficult. We made it out of the woods. We found our path. But I was looking for a break and looking for some more of that rocket ship experience where, it's more about hanging out and making sure that you're really just, stoking the coals and watching that growth and making sure that everything is up into the right.

[00:04:28] Andrew Michael: Yeah. I see that. I think like, When I was trying to think about like, why I went ahead and started a new company, again, like a chatting to me, my wife and friends and whatever. It's it is about that challenge. I think that you have in front of you of going from that zero to one, as you put it second.

There's a problem out there. Can you figure out a solution to this problem? Can you help people? And like that challenge of trying to figure out can you meet the needs of the end user and stuff? I think for me is probably the most exciting components. And like I said, there was always like a plethora of different directions.

You can take things in and [00:05:00] just trying to navigate and figure out, which is the best. I also see the knowledges are so the rocket ship, trying to keep things going on, spending the time at Hotjar, like we had some extreme, rapid growth there and it w it was almost like a break for me as well. Like joining Hotjar at that point, just like I needed to recharge.

We need to learn a few things as well and improve stuff. I said, talk to us a little bit about Sprig. What was the motivation behind it? Coming off the back of weirdly how did that experience plan to it's and what is the big idea there? 

[00:05:26] Ryan Glasgow: Looking at my experience prior to Sprig, it was really focused on picking the right problem space.

What is this? What's the mission of this company? What problem is this company solving? And in many cases, the companies are so early, the product completely changed. The problem space is really the only dimension that remains. But the second dimension that I know is with all of those experiences in all five of those companies were successfully acquired, was really around understanding the customer and putting user research first and really looking at what was working or not working about the product experience and the customer experience, and really that [00:06:00] customer centricity.

And so wanting to start a company as a founder, I thought about how can I bring. Unpack what was working and not working about those prior five experiences, but build a platform for anyone from writing their first lines of code all the way through to publicly traded companies that we work with today and everyone in between to have that platform where they can deeply understand their customers and really unlock the insights between the people, building the products and the people using the products in a more systematic way.

[00:06:33] Andrew Michael: Nice. I like that. So really taking your past experience of that zero to one, how to get people get there, but then also at the same time, like seeing how that same problem scales throughout as the company is growing, you just need to keep learning more and keep evolving. And it's interesting as well. Like when I joined a Hotjar as well was like, it is about 20 something employees there.

W I was amazed by how far, like Hotjar I had gone really just on user feedback and [00:07:00] interviews and stuff for a data analytics company the data analytics wasn't wasn't amazing. And it really, I think it speaks to like the early days where this is the key thing is really just speaking to customers.

Understanding should never stop speaking to customers, but even more so in those early days, like you can't really rely on data and analytics. It's not going to give you great information. There's no great signals. As a tool use interviews and research in general, it's it's the biggest and best place to start.

I think often maybe startups optimize and metrics analytics too soon and try to make decisions based on them, but really what you need to be doing is speaking to customers and I like the insight that you came to as well, and like the positioning of Sprig in the sense, like moving at the speed of product today.

Because I think that is one thing, like traditionally, like research itself, it takes time we spend weeks or months like putting together these elaborate projects to try and deliver insights. Like where did the positioning come from in this? And talk to us a little bit about the idea behind that, the concept.

[00:07:53] Ryan Glasgow: When I was working at Weebly we had a fantastic user research team and they had an appetite to deliver insights [00:08:00] faster. And, but they really seeing the tools available on the marketplace. The traditional incumbent survey providers like Qualtrics and survey monkey. And, it could be that size. 

You wouldn't use something like Typeform. So we're, we'll focus on the companies that are a little bit further along. And they were frustrated by the inability to get the data and analyze the data at the piece of what the product management and design team was looking for. And so you had this really friction where the product management team was starting a new sprint on Monday, and they had questions about mock-ups or product decisions that they're working on.

And, they only had a few business days to really reset. And understand and make a decision. And for, I think, any company today with that shift of continuous deployment, you're seeing companies deploy I'm sure at average daily, weekly companies at scale, like Facebook are deploying every hour, and even every minute in many cases.

And so if you look at this acceleration, [00:09:00] Deployments and development this always on nature versus research of these long 5,000 question surveys or a 10 participant interview study that might take four to eight weeks to recruit everyone and, synthesize all the data, schedule all the interviews.

You see this. Tension between research and product that will only continue to become more and more aggravated. And so it's, how can we really provide that platform between those two teams? They can work successfully together and build better products. 

[00:09:36] Andrew Michael: Yeah, I definitely see this a lot in our interviews.

Speaking to researchers obviously in the field. And what'd, you tend to hear is we don't typically have a seat at the table. Like our voice is not heard. And I think, pardon, that goes to what you're saying now is just like the time and the cycles it takes to get there or not what they need to be today.

Like modern product teams. Let's talk a little bit about positioning because I think in the context of general attention, it plays a big role, and it feels like you've spent a lot of time working [00:10:00] on your positioning at Sprig. And have you want to talk us a little bit about your research process to figure out how to position your product in the market and how you went about that in the early.

[00:10:11] Ryan Glasgow: In the early days, it was really focused on the wheelies of the world. So very early on from day one and the pitch to the investors, it required some patients from our earliest investors, but the underserved opportunity in the market is with the high growth and at-scale companies. And so one of our very first customers actually ended up being companies already at scale like square.

And so square is one of our first customers. And it's really thinking around the needs of companies that have. Tens and thousands, hundreds, millions. We have customers with tens of millions and hundreds of millions of customers. And so when they want to understand and conduct research with their customers, let's think through first principles of what a platform looks like for a company with a large user base or quickly scaling user base, to understand their customers, [00:11:00] knowing that a.

Survey platform doesn't actually work to fulfill those types of needs. So our position was more on the companies that were probably more in that B-to-C high growth vertical, as opposed to maybe the early stage startups that really maybe had a really small user base and were able to jump on a zoom with even half their customer base.

[00:11:22] Andrew Michael (2): Yeah, there must have been difficult in the early days. I think, trying to meet that audience as well, like trying to build a product that's probably not ready for that audience yet, but getting on that pain points, I think probably must have been one of the things that helped to really close those early deals and really solving the problem.

How do you see like your research evolving over time? So in the early days, like zero to one you're religious trying to understand, like the pain, the problem point, like fast forward to today, like what has changed at Sprig when it comes to your own user research? What are some of the things that you're looking into today and are there any sort of different differences in the practices that you're imploring.[00:12:00] 

[00:12:02] Ryan Glasgow: As you grow with any company. And I saw this at Weebly is that corporate strategy and product strategy becomes incredibly important and really understanding your company's position and the broader landscape becomes really important. So what we saw Weebly as that we'd Leo is really the first drag and drop website builder.

And the broader industry, but as companies emerge in this space, it became more and more important to think through our strategy and how we fit in the market. At Sprig. What we've seen is that we are now moving into companies of all sizes, and we really have to unpack the other vendors in this space.

For companies of different sizes, but each company, if you want to break them into the categories of, make it to t-shirt size companies, small, medium, and large tech companies, they're each gonna have unique sets of needs, but they'll also be using different complimentary products. To w around Sprig.

And so when we think around [00:13:00] our positioning and how we fit in the market, it becomes much more layered. And what we've evolved, our research thinking is actually conducting research very specifically with maybe a set of, small tech companies or medium tech companies or large tech companies and treating each of those very differently, rent, understanding their needs and whether Sprig is delivering on those.

[00:13:25] Andrew Michael (2): Not focusing on very specific segments of user base and really breaking it down by company size. I think now, obviously at that stage, like there's totally different needs, like you said, when you're very small business versus where you're in surprise and just the different challenges that go through managing a service like Sprig as well can be a challenge.

Let's talk a little bit about the context of churn and retention, like your past experience. I'm interested to see one, like how you thinking about the challenge, obviously coming from some of your past experiences at verb and Weebly is there something that you're thinking about at [00:14:00] Sprig today?

Is it something that's top of mind or how you're seeing it going through. 

[00:14:04] Ryan Glasgow: First of all, I think data is more important than ever. So I think particularly in the behavioral side, at least that here at Sprig, we're taking analytics very seriously investing in very high. We already have the data warehouse, where do you have mode?

And we have all the dashboards across all the different data points and what's working or not working across the business. And in past experiences, I think we maybe out of the data too late in the company's journeys. And, I think you mentioned hot char, perhaps added analytics and really robust analytics.

You maybe had some different expectations coming in, even at 20 people. So I think the first thing is, it is really important, zero to one to only focus on. Really that qualitative data, talking to customers, analytics, your point, isn't really super valuable. But once you have the analytics in place, you do start to scale.

It is really looking at. All the different types of customers and you have to really segment by the jobs to be done. And some customers will have different jobs to be done [00:15:00] than others that could be by market segment. That could be by role, that could be by industry, but really breaking the.

Customers that you have into the dimensions that you see are most distinct on the jobs to be done. And one of the biggest lessons for me around churn and retention has been that all of the Turner retention issues, if you actually want to ask. On improving churn and retention. It almost always has to be at the onboarding process.

And so people always are doing exit surveys and we still are. I still recommend an exit survey when someone cancels or, someone doesn't come back to a product, but they've already made that decision. And there's actually nothing actual, you can. When someone is canceling or disengaging with the product, that decision was made days, weeks, months, potentially years ago.

And so you have to really go upstream to see what's working. And you know how he approached it Weebly [00:16:00] with con companies typically smaller, but many different verticals, yoga studios, churches, education unpacking the different vertical. Looking at what was working or not working in the analytics data, but then looking at the root cause at the very beginning of the journey to understand why that particular segment was churning or disengaging with the product experience.

[00:16:23] Andrew Michael (2): Yeah, for sure. I don't know like how many episodes we've done now on the podcast, but I could say like by far, one of the biggest and most impactful areas is always onboarding. The conversation always gravitates back to that. And I think if you have a problem with the first instinct for people is let's go and see why people are churning when really what you should be doing is like seeing what's make or making other people successful.

And how can we make more people successful? So I think this the mindset and the shift as well comes from that experience. And you mentioned jobs to be done. I think. One of the most popular episodes still to this day was with base camps. He was at base camp, previously, Ryan singer where he spoke to [00:17:00] their sort of their jobs to be done research methodology.

And he like on the show, when I asked him about churn and retention, it's we don't have a problem with gender attention. I've never worked at a company where churn was an issue. Because we got so deep into our customer's problems, we got so deep into their jobs to be done. And we really were specific and focused on who we're serving and we understood how we could serve them better and that onboarding and things like that was then made a priority such Interesting you say that.

And I agree with you as well. Again, we were on Hotjar by the time I left, we had a super sophisticated an elixir. I was heading up the business intelligence team at the time. And I agree with you though. It is a stage that makes most sense for it, but you still, the earlier you get things set up and you get things right.

One of the big trends that come see, and I'm interested to hear your perspective on this, as well as like previously. We most companies split up user research, UX and data and analytics in two different silos. And you have user research going on from one end and doing their research practice. And you have that analytics [00:18:00] producing reports and working and receiving requests.

More and more there's companies. I've seen like Shopify, Spotify and others where they're employing mixed methods and they're getting data sciences to work directly with user researchers. What is your opinion on this? Is this something you're seeing as well? 

[00:18:16] Ryan Glasgow: It's something definitely a trend that we're seeing here at Sprague particular with our larger customers.

And you always want to figure out how you can take the research data that's in silos and integrate that with the, the behavioral data and the revenue data and the other types of data. And so far, that's actually one of the challenges I want to solve a Sprig is bringing all those data sets together.

One of the bigger challenges that we've seen with the. Research products is they don't actually have an event based architecture. And so at Sprig, one of the first things that we did, and again talked about the early days of building for companies, at scale to bring those data sets together, you do have to have an event based architecture.

You have to have user IDs and events and attaching qualitative data to events that took place. So you [00:19:00] actually know who the person was and what they did and tie in that qualitative data to a particular action. And. I think the challenge, a lot of product managers are maybe conflicted with is that you see AB tests in one thing, and you use a research in another, or a feature flag saying one thing and use research in another, or a data science, bringing a dataset saying, Hey, we analyze millions and millions of users.

And here's what we found and user research coming in and saying, Hey, we talked to five customers and here's what we found. And you have this friction, you have this, these two parties at odds, the data science team always thinks that the user researchers haven't, they don't have that group that's large enough to re meaningful.

But then, you have, the researcher is pointing to the data and saying, Hey, that's great that they did this, but you don't really understand why. And we've figured that out. And so what we're often seeing at Sprig is that a lot of people are taking our contextual approach to [00:20:00] research, and then they're able to integrate the research qualitative data into the.

And so one really interesting example, this is actually a surprise use case for me. I didn't expect the platform to be used in this way, but many of our customers are actually integrating Sprake into their AB testing infrastructure. And when they're running AB tests, they're actually able to ask the same question around about the change of their main.

And so if you're looking to improve the design for maybe completing a certain action and they roll out that new redesign, yeah. They're able to look at the qualitative data and potentially see a lift from what the users are thinking in that AB test, but then also have the AB test conversion data to see as a positive business impact, but also a positive user impact.

And if you can get both. That's always the gold standard in delivering an experience. Cause everyone knows about hiding the cancel button or hiding the button to, and it's going to increase revenue, but it's really going [00:21:00] to piss off all these customers. So it's how can you get both of those aligned?

And that's always that always results in that award winning experience. 

[00:21:07] Andrew Michael (2): For sure. And I think that's also a lot of like more risky, we're going to call it a risk experience. Like people concerned when running experiments, when it comes to pricing and packaging and things like this. Cause you just never know how people are perceiving things and putting out.

But I love the fact, like you mentioned, having an event based architecture allows you to be able to collect qualitative responses at the time when you may be running AB tests. I think. That's an amazing use case. And I could definitely see that being applied. Some of the experience we ran in the past about show where you really just what you, the data is one side of it, but you also want it to get like what people were feeling about this experience as well.

Because like you say, you can optimize and you can engineer and you can hack your way to. Improved metrics, but then understanding like how your customer perceives the product and how they enjoying it. And is something else on top of that as well. It's very often, they'd like the data can lie to you and there's a great quota things.

If you torture the data enough, it will confess to anything. Like I think the one thing that's not going to lie to you is your [00:22:00] customers and hearing their direct experience, that very powerful stuff. 

Ryan, one question I have for you that ask every guest that joins the show. Let's imagine a hypothetical scenario that you join a new company, turning our attention is not doing great.

And the CEO comes to you and says we really need to turn things around. We need to turn things around quite quickly. We have 90 days to try and make an impact. You're in China. What do you do? But the catch share is that you don't go and you're not allowed to go and speak to customers and understand what the biggest pain points is or none of that, because that's what everybody's on.

So would be, you're just going to choose something that you've seen. That's been effective in the past for reducing churn quickly some tactic to a previous company. And you're going to run with that blindly and hope it works. What would it be?

[00:22:43] Ryan Glasgow: I'll have to think about this one for a second. Yeah.

[00:22:47] Andrew Michael (2): Cause I'm guessing your immediate response was going to speak to customers and then.

[00:22:55] Ryan Glasgow: Knowing that churn and retention is almost [00:23:00] always stemming from successes or challenges during the onboarding phase.

We actually just bought a vendor in February and we decided an annual contract and we decided to churn and switch to another vendor two months later. And we already canceled the auto renew. We tell them we're not continuing. It almost always happens in the beginning of how successful someone is in the first 30 or 60 or 90 days.

The challenge that I often see with products today is that the attention span is so short people often aren't fully understanding the value of the product. And so if I was going to do one thing very blind, It would be to look at the simplest path in that product to deliver an aha moment and really look to abstract.

Everything else outside of that one single specific path and the onboarding flow that I've always, I've done [00:24:00] probably a close to a hundred hours of user testing, onboarding flows know across my career. The path that always works the best is show don't tell. And what that looks like is that you typically log, you sign up for the product you land in the product, and it might have a welcome.

Modal covering the product, building the excitement for the ask that you're about to make, to have that person go down the flow. So you got to get the excitement high before you haven't jumped through the hoops and you're say, Hey, we're so excited to hear you have that magic moment. I know a sauna has things like unicorns slant across the screen.

You want to generate that excitement. And then you get through that moment of excitement into the product and you have passive tool tips and so active tool tips where it grays out the entire screen and you can't do anything. People hate those they're leave. They'll be frustrated. You never want to force people down on certain flows.

So what I found org always works best as passive tool tips. They're sitting there, they're [00:25:00] telling you what to do. People will go off on their own and get stuck, but they'll know that there was actually a clue pointing it on where to go in the product. And so the passive tilt-up, we close that modal that passive tilt-up, we'll say.

We here's where you should go next. And then the person will see that passive tool. They'll click into that next step. And those tool tips, just sitting there, don't go away until someone completes that action. And so this accounts for the people that, want to go down the wrong path, but then come back and the reset and go down the right path that you're recommending them to go down and pointing them to that aha moment, whether it's Facebook's by friends or slack, a certain number of messages, but abstracting away and just getting them to the simplest.

Thing that you can do to deliver value. And if you can do that at a high degree, then the you downstream, I would [00:26:00] expect a significantly higher lower churn rate and higher engagement rates because they understand your products, value proposition. And you've been able to really successfully communicate with as many people as possible what your product offers to.

[00:26:17] Andrew Michael (2): Nice. Yeah, I think going back to the original point that you made as well about onboarding being the biggest impact, I think it makes a lot of sense to start. Yeah. I also like how you basically just say like strip everything out of the way. Like often people just want to show every like bell and whistle that the product does every feature.

And just focusing on that one key action can really be powerful. Like. How do you go about understanding what that key action is like that you want to be driving your users through often products may have two or three, I think in your case you have two or three different features.

Like people get lean into how your, about going about setting them up for the right path that you want them to take. 

[00:26:54] Ryan Glasgow: I think, first of all, it's looking at, what can you do in a what's called single-player mode? You don't need other teammates. [00:27:00] I think slack might be at a disadvantage there. You need to invite someone to get value.

It's like the fax machine. You can't just have one person faxing themselves. And so what's a, that single-player mode where someone immediately within two to three minutes, Attention spans are very short and they're getting shorter and shorter, every year. So what's the thing you can do to immediately deliver value in single player mode for the individual person and what is probably the quickest.

Action that they can do. And so at Sprig, we have integrated contextual micro surveys, which is often multiplayer. You need often an engineer, probably like Hotjar the engineer might add the code for you, or you might do it through Google tag manager, but you might not have. Access yourself to Google tag manager.

And so that's probably more of like multiplayer. We need multiple people involved that could be a multi-day activation, with Sprague, it could be something like taking a Figma link and dropping it into Sprague and creating a concept test that you can have a shareable [00:28:00] link and share that with one of your customers.

Or it could be even a video interview. We have asynchronous video interviews, recording a couple of videos. Giving that person a shareable link and they can then maybe share it with someone that is probably as close as we can get given that we're a research company to a single-player cause we're just removing the process of launching that survey to a single person.

And you still might need someone else to respond, but at least you're set up to share that link with someone. And that's probably as far as we can get as quickly as possible to demonstrate and show. 

[00:28:37] Andrew Michael (2): Yeah, I think this point on the time to value there's two aspects that I think I've seen from the podcast is.

One. And I think this came out in an interview with Sean class who was previously at Atlassian and he was building their growth team there. And in the early days they found like the very biggest indicator, a fond when it came to Turner attention. Was the [00:29:00] amount of time people spent in their first session in the product and the greater that amount of time increased, the more chance and likelihood they had of retaining.

And it was the only metric that was like the highest correlated to retention. And then obviously they came down to like really understanding the onboarding, making sure they captured the attention from the beginning and adding that value from that. The other side, though, I've heard the opposite in cases where adding frictions onboarding has actually helped companies.

For example, segments, case like segment analytics speaking to them in the early days, they had found out that. Customers, we're just getting started with their product. They try to make it seamless and easy to going. And Eleanor Dorfman shared this is that they realized at some point that this was not setting them up for success because the whole point of segment was to make sure that you had a good clean analytics stack.

And you had a really solid tracking plan in place that you had governance behind it. So you would solve all the mess that you had prior to that. And just allowing people just to get started in their. Allowing them [00:30:00] to create that mess. So they actually introduced a step where you needed to go through and walk with them and set up a tracking plan before you could get started with the product.

And then on the flip side, like really increased retention. So I think it just it depends on the product, as well, at the same point, like you said, that single mode, MultiCare mode, segments, not a tool. I think it's a single player mode. Like you need to have your team, you have the engineers.

And so I really liked the point on. 

[00:30:27] Ryan Glasgow: Yeah, I'll that as well. I think for a segment they require multiplayer. There is no single player possibility. And so I can certainly see how they need to set up that multiplayer situation for success, which probably means a call and looking at the data and mapping things out.

Knowing that one person they sell primarily to marketers cannot be successful on their. I think too, the challenge for the other example, you mentioned is that the, whether it's causation or correlation on time spent in that first session and someone, being engaged in the future.

Cause I would say that, of course someone's spending more time is going [00:31:00] to be more likely to stay with the product. But generally you want to look for that causal metric and something that maybe is less, correlative and as more really that driver around future.

[00:31:10] Andrew Michael (2): Last question then I have for you today is what's one thing that, today about general attention that you wish you knew when you got started with your career.

[00:31:20] Ryan Glasgow: Yeah. I definitely covered the main one, which is just looking really far up the funnel to the very beginning of the signup flow, the onboarding process, I think the other one is people are far, they signed up for a reason. And I think a lot of people like to hide behind analytics data and just make guesses, maybe watch screen recordings of people and try to make asses, but jobs.

If you think around the jobs to be done concept you hire a product for. And that reason is serving a purpose in your life. And you provided your email and you set a password and you went through that signup flow because you wanted to a better version of yourself or [00:32:00] your company or whatever you're looking to achieve.

And I think a lot of product managers and designers, miss the mark, is that. You have to really just ask those people. What were you hoping to achieve with that product? And why did that product fall short? Because they'll tell you because they are there for a reason they're using the product for a reason.

They want something out of the product and the product didn't deliver. It fell short for particular reason, or maybe there is something externally that caused them to disengage and churn and not come back, but people are. Far more invested in a success of your product. Then I think many product managers realize.

And so I've learned to really involve them in the success of the product and in the business and understanding that they want that product to succeed. They want it to deliver on their jobs to be done. They want that better version of themselves or that company that they're working at a. Grow a little [00:33:00] bit further and grow a little bit faster.

And so just don't be afraid to, whether it's with Sprague or with other tools just to reach out and talk to them because they signed up for a reason. And I think the more that you really realize that I think the better. 

[00:33:13] Andrew Michael (2): Yeah, I can a hundred percent agree with that. And this literally happened this week where a team member was helping somebody out on Intercom with a support request.

And we're also busy doing our own user research at the moment for something new we're looking to introduce. And I sent him, I said like, why not ask them to participate in the research? And the response was low. They just complained about it. How's that. Yeah. But asking you and and then the response came back, the next station respond that day, but the next day, the response.

Yeah. I'd absolutely love that. Please send it to me when you want. So you'd be surprised, like how much work she wants you to succeed in their lives, especially like you said, if they've come to you for a reason, like they're trying to solve this problem and you're presenting and you're trying to help in that endeavor.

I think people are lot more willing to help than you think. 

Brian has been a pleasure chatting to you today. Is there any sort of final thoughts you want to leave the listeners with anything they should be aware [00:34:00] of? Or how can they keep up to speed with your work?

[00:34:03] Ryan Glasgow: Definitely check out sprig.com and so we have a really generous free plan at this stage. We're really just looking to get folks set up, conducting more research. We offer asynchronous research. With video interviews, concept tests, and also contextual micro surveys, right within your product experience or over email. So sign up, create your account.

We have very generous help chat as well. So you can ask questions and get those all sorted out. So I'd love to see everyone, create a counter, run some research with Sprague and hear what it's working or not working with your customers. And also really excited to partner with . And really get the Sprig data into and be a partner with you as well.

And just make sure that people can look at Sprig data along with all their other behavioral revenue data, all the other insights that are being gathered across other research vendors as well. And so excited to be a part of your journey and grow that research [00:35:00] space and grow that understanding of customers to.

[00:35:02] Andrew Michael: Yeah enough. Fine. Yeah. Thanks so much for that. And we'll definitely make sure if you're listening, there'll be in the show notes, links to Sprague and other resources we mentioned today on the show. So thanks so much for joining and I wish you best of luck now, going forward. 

Thank you, Andrew. Thanks.


Ryan Glasgow
Ryan Glasgow

The show

My name is Andrew Michael and I started CHURN.FM, as I was tired of hearing stories about some magical silver bullet that solved churn for company X.

In this podcast, you will hear from founders and subscription economy pros working in product, marketing, customer success, support, and operations roles across different stages of company growth, who are taking a systematic approach to increase retention and engagement within their organizations.


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