How Adobe managed the transition from selling compact discs to cloud subscriptions.

Dave Blake


Founder and CEO


Dave Blake
Dave Blake

Episode Summary

Today on the show we have Dave Blake, founder, and CEO of ClientSuccess

In this episode, we talked about what motivated Dave to start ClientSuccess and how their service helps their customers drive expansion and reduce churn, he also shares what it was like being at Adobe when they made the big switch from selling compact discs to a cloud-based subscription service business.

We also discussed how Adobe became an extension of their customer’s team by physically working at their offices’ building deep relationships, how Dave is applying his learnings to his own company, and the evolution of a customer success team as a company scales.

Mentioned Resources



What motivated Dave to start ClientSuccess and how their service helps customer success reps drive expansion and reduce churn. 00:01:60
What it was like being at Adobe when they made the big switch from selling compact discs to a cloud-based subscription service business. 00:05:09
How Adobe became an extension of their customer’s team by physically working at their offices. 00:16:06
How Dave is applying his learnings to his own company 00:19:40
The evolution of a customer success team as a company scales. 00:19:40


Andrew Michael: [00:00:00] Hey, Dave, welcome to the show.

Dave Blake: [00:00:02] Thanks for having me, Andrew, it's great to be here.

Andrew Michael: [00:00:05] Pleasure for the listeners. Dave is the CEO and founder of client success. The customer success platform that drives customer attention and growth across your entire company.

Prior to client success. Dave served as the VP of customer success at Adobe and Omniture and started his career out as a consultant. So my first question for you, Dave, is what was so painful in your role as VP of customer success that motivated you to start client success.

Dave Blake: [00:00:33] Great question, Andrew. Thanks.

Uh, you know, there was, I, I started my career in the trenches of customer success, as you mentioned, um, all the way in, in as a frontline CSM and, and, um, kind of climbing that ladder to be a VP of customer success for a global company. And we had great success despite, uh, not having a, um, a solution for, for, to help us.

Um, we. Um, [00:01:00] built a lot of best practices and had a lot of great processes.  but we had to cobble together insights and analytics. Um, and solutions across many different solutions. So whether it be Salesforce spreadsheets, a large operations team that was, was, uh, supporting us. And it was just painful to have the insights and the workflows and the analytics that we needed.

And so after 10 years of a great, uh, journey at Omniture and Adobe I decided to leave and build a solution that I wish I would've had for our team. And that's how I founded client success. And so that, like, like you said, we're customer success platform that helps you manage the, the relationship measure customer health and maximize that post sales revenue.

Andrew Michael: [00:01:47] Very cool. Yeah, definitely like scratching your own itch, solving your own problem. I think time and time again, this is like something here over and over again of successful companies. They get up and running. So talk us through that a little [00:02:00] bit more as well. So it's customer success platform. Uh, you mentioned a couple of things, but maybe wanna go into a little bit more detail, uh, how your product service helps customer success reps.

Dave Blake: [00:02:10] Yeah, we're very, very focused on the customer success space. And so our platform is it for all things post-sales. So once a, once a, a sales rep closes a deal in whatever sales CRM they have, that information comes into client success, and then the customer success team and others who are managing that post-sales journey.

Leverage is our platform to proactively, um, take the customer down that journey. And, and it has all the workflows and insights and analytics that are very tailored for their needs. And so we're really excited. We've got a global customer base who have a lot of passion for this industry of, of driving, um, expansion and reducing churn with their customers.

And our platform is key to help them do that.

[00:03:00] Andrew Michael: [00:03:00] Very cool.  Um, and let's go back then as well. So like this came out of your experience, like you mentioned at Adobe and I'm in churn just before the show as well. We talked about like your time spent at big w was probably one of the biggest pivotal moments in Adobe's history.

And, um, that's something I want to touch on a little bit now and dive a little bit deeper into it, for sure. Businesses, maybe thinking about, um, a revenue based stock, transaction based business and switching to a subscription model. Um, maybe you want to talk us a little bit about that point in time, uh, when Adobe switched from their transactional nature to subscription and, um, what it was like being at Adobe at that point in time.

Dave Blake: [00:03:41] Yeah to do so maybe I'll back up a little bit, even farther to kind of explain the story. So I was with a company that was called Omniture. Uh, it's a brand that is, was well-known and, and there are many of your audience, uh, may understand or know who  is. We were the leading web [00:04:00] analytics company for many years for global brands worldwide.

So, yep. Disney and Sony and Microsoft and Apple and those, and, uh, we had great success. We were in hyper-growth and IPO, and I was able to, to go on that journey. And then a couple of years after IPO, Adobe came along and, and bought us. And, um, initially. The, the reasoning behind it was obviously our product was very, uh, well-known for marketers and Adobe was purely in the marketing space and delivering solutions to change the game of marketing worldwide.

Uh, but they also love the fact that armature was very, very customer focused. And it was kind of an interesting story. If you were to walk into the Omniture, any Omniture officer worldwide. You would look up on the walls and you look at every nook and cranny throughout the whole building. And there would be plaques of customer names and logos and [00:05:00] artifacts like Nike was one.

And so you'd have some air Jordans over here that, that celebrated our partnership with Nike and so on and so forth. However, you'd walk into the Adobe. Buildings anywhere worldwide, and there'd be a celebration of all their patents and it was kind of a different mentality. Um, and so one of the big reasons they, they acquired Omniture was to bring this customer first mentality.

The second reason as it came out over the years was that they really wanted to make us shift from on-premise to. Um, to SaaS and they knew that that was part of it is having a culture of focused on the company and they also wanted to, um, learn the  SaaS business. And so we were a big part of their transformation.

Uh, several years after they acquired us the leadership team lead. Led by I think the best SaaS CEO in history, , uh, Adobe CEO shot Nuna. Ryan made this big bet and decided that they were going [00:06:00] to transform their business from a, uh, largely a, uh, on-premise or, um, even.

Uh, what do you flop? I can eat, you know, uh, an on-premise product or still at the time, not flop floppy test, but just base, uh, installations of their product to S to a SAS business. And, uh, so they, they made it, that was an amazing part of the journey. Um, they had to go out to the. Go out to the street and tell them that they're making this this move and, and tell the street that they were gonna take a big hit in revenue and to expect that, and they were gonna, they were going to sunsets many of their products that were cash cows.

And start to make this migration. And it was a big bet. It was exciting to see at the time, but it, but anybody who knows Adobe knows that that that was a huge success. And I think at the time that I was there, the stock was at somewhere in the thirties and [00:07:00] now I think it's, uh, four hive, uh, 400. Uh, 400 to $500 is what the stock price is.

So it was an exciting opportunity to be there for that whole journey.

Andrew Michael: [00:07:11] Definitely. It sounds like going through that acquisition as well, um, being sort of, part of the reason, uh, being acquired was to manage that transition and to gain those expertise, uh, to a SAS based model. Um, you mentioned as well, like they needed to go out in the streets and say, we're going to make these big bets.

We're going to take a hit on revenue. Um, like. Were you involved in any of these discussions? Like how the communication would happen? Like was any sort of pressure against it? I'm assuming. Yes, but sort of, how did they end up coming in deciding, okay, this is the right move to make this as the future of Adobe.

Dave Blake: [00:07:47] You know, I think, uh, uh, I wasn't directly involved in those as a few pay grades above my level, but, um, but I think they just looked at and S and, and were able to see, uh, there, you know, definitely visionaries [00:08:00] and see where the future of technology was going and that if they were going to thrive, And have a long-term future that they had to adapt.

Um, and I think that's a great sign of a great leader is an a great leadership team is the, they see into the future. Um, and they skate where the puck is going to be as, as the sane says and, and made some, make some tough decisions on, on where they should go as a, as a, as a team. And they made that bet.

I'm sure it was very difficult. I'm sure it was scary. But it was a bold bet that paid off in, in a big way. And I think sometimes you have to make those bold bets if you're going to, to not just survive, but thrive in the face, future

Andrew Michael: [00:08:42] and the future. Yeah, definitely. I think obviously visionary, uh, company Adobe as well, like some amazing software used by millions of people around the world.

Uh, one of an interesting episode, I just think actually, Uh, that I came across, like the sort of bigger decisions where they decided they were going to go from [00:09:00] sort of a paid product to a, um, subscription service was GoDaddy themselves, um, and go daddy decided to, um, transition one of their site builders to a subscription service.

And the interesting thing, I think that they went and did. Uh, was just look at the S one filings of their competitors, like, um, Shopify, Wix, or, uh, economy, which companies was at the time, but, uh, and just understood sort of the economics, the unit economics. And it was just pretty clear to them that moving to subscription was going to be better for longterm, uh, LTV.

Uh, for the customers. And, um, it was just an interesting thing. I think you're just looking at this one filings to understand the potential in the markets. So pretty sure maybe Adobe could have had some insights and views looking at other comparative companies in the space at all, to understand the opportunity.


Dave Blake: [00:09:50] yeah,

Andrew Michael: [00:09:51] so managing the stress transition, like what did that look like as well? Because you were going from like this mindset where people had like [00:10:00] purchasing Adobe products, meant other buying a CD, like you said, and a once off and you had it and you could use it. And there was it. And then now all of a sudden needing to have a recurring subscription to maintain the usage of the product.

And I think over time, you've. Even deprecated or USA now, but Adobe is even deprecated the one-off purchase overall. And you need to have a subscription. Now, if you want to have the latest version of Adobe. So from a customer success standpoint, that's quite a big fundamental shift in how you deal with your customers and how they pay you.

So what did that transition look like for you?

Dave Blake: [00:10:35] Yeah, I think, you know, I was on the side with the amateur team, which we had always been a SAS. And so for us, it was, um, we were actually sharing a lot of the best practices that we had built on the  Omniture side with the Adobe business. Um, and the real recurring part of the business originally on the Adobe side was more support and maintenance.

Side of the business. [00:11:00] And so we, we actually saw that side of the business kind of slowly, um, sunset, and, and then the true SAS, recurring revenue side of the business, um, uh, start to ramp significantly. And, you know, I like to think that Dan and feel that we, we contributed in, in a integrate way of sharing, uh, the philosophies, the best practices, the strategies there, and then that side of the business.

Uh, you know, took those learnings and, um, and their own strategy and, and ran with it. And we saw the success that, uh, that they've they've had over the years. And so now, uh, all of the Adobe businesses, a recurring revenue business, which brings together that much more predictability, um, and, and just stronger revenue, multiples, and stronger growth across the business.

Andrew Michael: [00:11:49] Yeah, the predictability in sauce is what makes it so magical. I think having the four sites and understanding of knowing where the business is going, uh, is, is really amazing. Yeah. [00:12:00] Um, and then what did sort of the success team looked like? Maybe it on the chair and as well at Adobe, in terms of like the high touch versus low touch, like, uh, what did success typically look like?

Dave Blake: [00:12:12] Yeah, I'm turning Adobe, who we brought over as we did like most customer success teams, as we did a, um, a really thorough process of building out customer segments, um, and then aligning teams and strategies and measures across those, those segments. So we had a, um, we had four main segments. We had, um, uh, a mid-market segment, um, key.

And strategic and partner and, um, and I was over the strategic and key accounts, um, worldwide. And so we were, uh, most of the companies that my team and managed were a million dollars of revenue or above. Um, so it was a, it was a great experience in that regard of being able to, to have that responsibility, [00:13:00] um, and that exposure to these world-class companies worldwide and, and drive that strategy throughout, throughout the business.

Um, and that was really the basis is having a strong, a strong strategy around customer segments and then having very specific, uh, strategies and team, um, cultures and charters around those various segments , throughout the company

Andrew Michael: [00:13:25] and the segments. How are they defined?

Dave Blake: [00:13:29] Uh, at the time we try to keep it fairly, really simple.

And it was really about, uh, all around spend. And I know there's a lot of other ways that folks do it now, but for us it was, it was about spanned. And so we would have different, um, tiers of spend. Um, I think it was like . Under 50,000 was a small one and 50,000 to two 50, 250, 250 to 500, 500 to a million and a million and above.

Um, and you know, we, we, we did a lot of [00:14:00] testing around team structure, team strategy around those different segments, but overall, we found the right segments for us, and then we're able to align the straps and the customer journey around those segments and in a very successful way.

Andrew Michael: [00:14:15] So purely revenue based sort of how you're segmented.

And then I'm assuming you probably as well went and tried to understand within those segments that are generating that type of revenue. What are like the firmographics and demographics look like? Uh, which probably I did a little bit in sort of like the, uh, lead qualification and understanding like where to spend maybe some of the earlier resources when you have customers in the earlier stage of the journey.

Dave Blake: [00:14:38] Yeah, we did. We did all that. So on the high end on strategic accounts, it was very high touch. In fact in most of our strategic accounts, we, we, um, We had our team members in, on location and badged with, with, uh, with those, you know, badges for those customers. So for [00:15:00] example, and our two week team for Microsoft, we went to a model where we put them onsite in Microsoft.

So we hired up in Seattle, they had a badge, they were on the campuses and collaborated with the team all day. Uh, we had a team out back in the day. AOL was a, a big business and actually we had a massive contract there. And so we had a team back in Dulles, Virginia that was onsite. Um, working full time, um, uh, and, and so on and so forth.

So we really tried to on the high end, give them very high touch and become a part of their team. And then on the low end, it was much more, uh, as you can imagine, a low touch, um, uh, model that was a lot of nurturing, uh, leveraging a broader team of specialists in those types of things.

Andrew Michael: [00:15:46] Super interesting.

So you actually had. People on premise at companies, helping them with Adobe and Omniture products. Hmm. Yeah.

Dave Blake: [00:15:55] Yeah. In fact, uh, I spent a year back in Dola standing up, [00:16:00] but the, um, the AOL team AOL at the time, this was the amateur days was the biggest, um, contract ever in a web analytics sitch, um, uh, you know, in the web analytics space.

Yeah. So with that, we, we put, we stood up a whole team there and, and, uh, I spent a year back in Dulles, Virginia, standing up a team, but what it did is it sh it, it developed this deep relationship that, um, that we were very, very aligned with their needs, their objectives. Uh, we had, we knew them really well and, um, and we couldn't get better alignment than that.

And that  ended up being very successful for us.

Andrew Michael: [00:16:38] So, let me just wrap my head around this as well, where you actually enables offices, or you would just close by. Yeah. Wow.

Dave Blake: [00:16:45] In AOL offices, we had in fact that in that contract, which is unique, we had our own war room and said desks and everything in there.

Um, but, but we did that quite often. It was whether we [00:17:00] were. Locator or in their offices, we would try to have all of our strategic customer success managers have badges at their account so that a, if they were managing at Apple, they could, they were had a tight enough relationship that they would have that trust and, and consider them an extension of their team.

And that was a clear strategy for us.

Andrew Michael: [00:17:20] I wonder how many other companies similar to Adobe or Metro had access like that to just like Earl is hosting like a lot of different providers within the offices to help them service their needs? Um,

Dave Blake: [00:17:34] yeah, at the time they were growing fast enough and they were, they had such a large operation worldwide that th that was, that was, um, as common thing for theme for them.

Andrew Michael: [00:17:42] Well, cool. So let's jump forward now, uh, today and present and with all the experience that you've had, like amateur and, um, at Adobe, you started your own company. Now you're building  customer success software called client success. And, [00:18:00] um, you're. Setting up customer success, I assume for yourself now, what are some of the lessons that you bringing from the past?

Like how are you going about setting up success at client success?

Dave Blake: [00:18:13] Yeah, we're in a unique situation in that we are a customer success company, um, that has our own. Customer success team. And so we go through all the, the same evolutions of every other company, even though, uh, you know, we, we have a lot, a lot of experience.

We go through the same trial and error. We go through the same evolution that anybody else. And so for us, It started with the same thing I just described. It was clearly defining some customer segments, um, and, um, aligning the team to those segments and then building out, um, building out the, the team from there.

Um, obviously it's, it's anchored around an excellent team and excellent people who really have passion for there [00:19:00] for, um, Customer success and for their customers. And with that anchor, then a building the building blocks to, to try to deliver a great customer experience for our customers. And we're not perfect in our, uh, you know, um, we would, uh, we wouldn't ever.

Um, claiming to be, um, because we make our own mistakes and we, you know, learn as we go. But I think the  fundamentals of, of building and scaling a customer success team are, are, are similar to whether you're at an early stage company or a, um, or a enterprise, uh, company. The fundamentals are the same.

And it's about how, how do you execute those fundamentals and then scale those fundamentals across the team.

Andrew Michael: [00:19:42] Yeah, I love that you mentioned sort of evolution and sort of trial and error and things changing as you scale. And I think this is also like one of those concepts, as well as like people might read, like, this is the best practice in customer success, or, um, but a lot of times it's just bullshit because it's really important to understand what stage [00:20:00] you're at and what makes sense for your business at that time.

And, uh, best practices for one company, Martin would be a best practice for yours. So I'm interested now, like what would you say is like, Two or three of the stages that you've passed through where you could say, Hey, this was the first stage of customer success or client success. This was second. And now we're third.

Like maybe is there sort of stages that you could break it up into sort of a highlight that evolution growing the team?

Dave Blake: [00:20:25] Yeah, I think there's a, there's a typical maturity model. And I think the first one, uh, just that is a given is having the right people, um, hiring the right people. Uh, it's different in different stages.

I would say in an early stage startup stage, you want, um, customer success managers, CSMs that are very nimble, that are, that are okay. Um, Being able to, um, execute with, uh, very little resources. Um, you know, you don't have a lot of documentation, you don't have a lot of resources [00:21:00] and so you have to be nimble and you have to be able to, um, to.

Build and be a builder and, and, and add the foundation, whereas at a enterprise company, you're, you're really just executing on a strategy. So I think starting with the right people. And then I think, um, as we mentioned, customer segmentation is key next, because as much as you'd like, you can't treat every customer the same.

Uh, you can give them a similar experience, a great experience, but you have to do that in very different ways. And so that's the second one. And then I think it's starting the foundations. We talk about this concept of building a culture of customer success. It's how do you start that from very early, very early on.

Um, and so that you don't have to try to break down walls and barriers in the future to be able to, um, be able to have your company centered around customer success, to have a, the philosophy, um, to give them the support, to have to trust in their judgment and those [00:22:00] types of things. I think that's really important for early stage companies to set the foundation early.

In that regard. , maybe I'll give you an example of one that we're doing right now. Cool. Um, So we, we really want to be a company of, uh, of a culture of customer success. And even a, even though we preach that there's some natural barriers that, that, um, prevented at time. And sometimes it's, uh, sometimes it's resource barriers, sometimes it's personality barriers, sometimes it's process barriers.

One of the things that we're looking at right now is to say, how do we. We know what the voice of the customer is. We've got all this data and insights that are coming at us from various things. Um, and so we feel like we have a pretty good heartbeat, um, uh, an understanding of what the CA the, the customer, uh, Sentiment is, but the challenge is, is how do you, where do you prioritize?

Um, what are the most important things that you [00:23:00] could do today with the resources that you have that will have the biggest impact on the customer and the customer experience over time? So, one of the things that we're looking at, uh, that we just discussed with our customer success team, um, three days ago was, um, what if we.

Could we create a formal internal customer advisory experience. For our team, which would be basically you have the customer success team capture data and insights and perspectives of the customer. And every quarter form formalize those into a presentation and give and present to the executive team.

This is what we know our customers. Well, here's the data, the feedback from the customer, and here are the top three things that we should go after. As a company, these are the, the improvements that we need to make in our product. And or these are the strategies we need to, um, attain or these are the improvements we need to make.

In other parts of the experience as [00:24:00] a company that will change, that will move the, um, the move, the ball for this company, but make it in a way that is, it holds the rest of the business accountable for those recommendations. So the idea is maybe once a quarter, maybe once a month, the customer success team pulls us together, delivered it to the executive team.

And then the next quarter they come back and the customer success team grades the rest of the business on how well they listened to and executed, uh, uh, to those, uh, to those recommendations. Um, and so, uh, not only is their voice heard. But there's this greater sense of accountability that says, yeah, we're not, we're not just going to listen and put it aside.

We're actually going to, um, find a way and make a way and prioritize to, um, to, to fulfill these recommendations, to execute on these recommendations. That's one way that I think a company can early on [00:25:00] establish that tradition and that process and that rhythm, that cadence and continue on for years to come to make a. Make it.

Andrew Michael: [00:25:09] Yep. Yeah. That's one of the big challenges for customer success actually is around the front lines. You always speaking to customers, you understand the needs extremely well, but then. Getting those needs translated into product requirements and to actually getting execution done on the other end is often noise like an up Hill battle because typically working in silos like products, doing their own research and discovery, um, and, uh, customer success, unfortunately in most cases like has the weaker of the two voices when it comes to deciding what gets built and what gets done.

So. I liked the idea of sort of building this into the culture and, um, giving the platform for customer success to really have that impact.

Dave Blake: [00:25:51] Yeah. We're excited to see how it works out here and, and hopefully share, share the learnings with the broader community.

Andrew Michael: [00:25:58] Nice. Cool. [00:26:00] So obviously you're familiar with the show.

So, um, uh, you, you must be familiar with this question. I'm going to ask next, but let's imagine a hypothetical scenario now that you arrive at you get a new job arrive at this company general. Attention's not doing great. The CEO comes to you and is like, Dave, we need to make a change. We need to reduce churn.

Now we have 90 days to do it. And, uh, you're in charge. What are you going to do with your time?

Dave Blake: [00:26:29] First thing I do, I would do is get out and speak with customers. I would understand the customer experience and customer perspective in great detail. So I would, uh, be on zoom in this climate. I would be on zoom calls.

Every day with as many customers as I could in, in another environment, I would prefer to get on the road and spend a significant portion of that time on the road, um, and compiling that data and bringing the voice of the [00:27:00] customer back in, uh, uh, to the business in a very concrete way, using data and using, um, quotes videos.

Um, for, for that customer. So that's, that's the first thing. Uh, the second thing is I would create a what week, what I would call a customer immersion program internally. And, uh, so that the rest of the leaders could understand the customer's perspective in, in the sense that I would put them through a small immersion to put them in the shoes of our customers.

So it would have our whole leadership team listened to customer calls on the support. With support with customer success. Um, so on and so forth, I would have them use our product to simulate some of the activities our customers are using. I would bring customers into our town hall meetings to speak and give honest and clear feedback.

And all of this is to really gain empathy and understanding for our customers and then bring it back into the business for action. And then the third thing I would do is I would [00:28:00] go through typically in these situations, you always first to focus on those customers that are turning and you're doing deep dive on churn analysis.

I would go out and find also the best customers that we have, the ones that have been with us the longest, the ones that are most happy and getting the most value and do a success analysis as well. So not only many times, you can get farther along by executing on the action speeds of your most successful customers.

Um, as you can on the attributes of those customers that are turning and, and most of the time, that's actually a better way to go. So those are the, those are the three things that I would do within that 90 days to have impact, um, and change,

Andrew Michael: [00:28:41] start talking to customers, empathize with them and then really trying to analyze sort of not only who's churning, but what is making customers successful and doubling down on that.

And I think definitely from that perspective, that lens, like this is definitely a natural place where people say we've got a trend problem and they immediately go say, okay, what are the reasons for churn? [00:29:00] Um, but really flipping that. Lens and saying, okay, what makes people successful with our product? Um, and how can we amplify the success of our customers is often a much, much bigger opportunity.

One, because it's very difficult to convince somebody who's actively already made a decision to churn. And often those signals happen much earlier on than the actual event. Self and to, because if you're able to improve activation rates, if you're able to improve the value that customers are getting out of the product, it has a compounding effect over time as well.

So you're able to keep more of your customer base for longer and ultimately drive growth for the business. So I think it's fantastic point. Um, Dave, what's one thing that you know today about Chyna attention that you wish you knew when you got started with your career.

Dave Blake: [00:29:47] In a SAS business, just the significant, this seems like an obvious statement.

I'm going to say, but in a SAS business to significant of, of product in, in, uh, retention [00:30:00] at the end of the day, a SAS business is a product business. And, um, so I believe that the, the. Um, crucial part of retention is around the product experience and the product delivering value on its own. And so a lot of people talk a lot about, um, do you have product market fit?

And that's a great concept. I love that, but it's really focused on, can you sell the product? I, my concept that I think that.  need to focus more on is DIA product retention fit. Um, because a lot of the attributes to retain a customer may be very different than, than the attributes of a product to sell a customer.

And so, um, that's, that's critical for me. And how do you close that gap between, uh, the product team and the customer success team so that you're delivering a product that drives value on its own. And so really at the end of the day, the customer success team is really driving. Um, is, is. Driving expansion through their efforts rather than trying to [00:31:00] save customers left and right throughout the, throughout the experience.

Andrew Michael: [00:31:03] Yeah. I liked that aproduct retention fit. I think for me as well, like the way I've used SaaS and subscription businesses, really

like your company is the product like, and more and more nowadays, like we create these silos, like with customer success and marketing and, but ultimately like, Every team within your company is responsible for parts of your product.

And the marketing is the packaging of that product, the successes, the sport, and like activation and enablement to their products. And then the software behind it obviously is what are using abusing. But each. Part of this company is a part of the product. And this is sort of like the way I am thinking about going into the next business, trying to structure things a little bit more from the mindset that we are the product, and we need to treat sort of every phase of the products we have this cohesive experience from beginning to end, but I like the point that you made as well as sort of like the product retention fits, being a lot more [00:32:00] important.

Uh, really focusing on that retention side, as opposed to can we sell the product? Is the market willing to pay for this, but is the market willing to stick around with

us? Cool Dave. Um, so I mean, it's been a pleasure chatting to you today. Is there any sort of final thoughts you want to leave the listeners with that?

They, I mean, how can they keep up to speed with your work? Anything exciting? You'd like to share with them before we drop off today.

Dave Blake: [00:32:22] No, it's been great conversation. And, uh, I, as a customer success professional at the core that just excited about the, uh, how customer success continues to elevate in companies and overall in SAS industry.

Um, and excited about the great thought leaders like yourself and others out there who are contributing in a significant way, um, in that regard. So just huge kudos to all of those who are on the front lines. Um, on the customer success space and for those CEOs out there who really getting continued to invest there, uh, it's a critical element to your success.

So continue to do that. [00:33:00] If there's anything I can ever do, I'm always here  at uh, or client uh, in general for great content or insights to help on this journey.

Andrew Michael: [00:33:11] Awesome. Uh, thanks so much. Yeah. And I definitely echo that. I think like customer success really is at its infancy at this point in time.

Uh it's it's a really a Greenfield. And like you say, there's a lot of people like are like yourself as well. And, uh, client success really trying to pave the way forward and improve things. Uh, cause it can only enable you to have greater success with your productive role. So Dave, it's been a pleasure chatting to you today.

Thank you so much for joining the show and wish you best of luck now, going forward on your journey.

Dave Blake: [00:33:41] Thanks, Andrew. Great to be with you.

Andrew Michael: [00:33:44] Cheers.


Dave Blake
Dave Blake

The show

My name is Andrew Michael and I started CHURN.FM, as I was tired of hearing stories about some magical silver bullet that solved churn for company X.

In this podcast, you will hear from founders and subscription economy pros working in product, marketing, customer success, support, and operations roles across different stages of company growth, who are taking a systematic approach to increase retention and engagement within their organizations.


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