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How this early-stage startup used instructional videos to curb churn

Tina Todorovic | Co-founder of Social Web Suite

  • | Activation | Growth | Onboarding | Retention
  • July 2019
  • EP18

Tackling churn early

How this early stage startup is thinking about churn

In today’s episode of CHURN.FM we have something a little different as we speak to an early-stage startup to hear how they are thinking about tackling churn in the early days.

Tina Todorovic is our guest and she is the co-founder of Social Web Suite, a social media management platform for WordPress sites.

We chatted about why Social Web Suite built a product focused on WordPress and how they scratched their own itch in the process.

We also discussed the authentic process that Tina took to collect user feedback during their beta period and the tools she used to do so.

Tina also shared how they managed to reduce 80% of their support requests and increase retention using clear website copy and targeted contextual instructional videos.

I spoke to Tina today who is at a much earlier stage than all our previous guests and I’m interested to hear if you think I should be speaking to more early-stage startups. If you have any feedback I would love to hear from you. You can email me directly on Andrew@churn.fm

Enjoy the episode!


Highlights

Time
Why Social Web Suite focused on WordPress 00:05:00
How they decreased support requests by 80% and increased retention using instructional videos 00:07:00
An authentic process to collect user feedback for early stage startups 00:21:00
How website copy impacts churn 00:28:00
Tools you can use to better understand your users 00:30:00
What Tina would do differently to tackle churn is she was starting again 00:34:00

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Tina Todorovic

Co-founder of Social Web Suite

Tina’s recommended resources on churn
What Tina is reading right now

About the podcast

My name is Andrew Michael and I started CHURN.FM, as I was tired of hearing stories about some magical silver bullet that solved churn for company X.

In the real world tackling churn and increasing retention is one of the hardest problems a subscription business faces.

In this podcast, you will hear from founders and subscription economy pros who are taking a systematic approach to increase retention and engagement within their organizations.

Transcription

Andrew Michael
Hey, Tina, welcome to the show.

Tina Todorovic
Hey, Andrew, thank you so much for having me.

Andrew Michael
It’s a pleasure. It’s great to have you. So you as you know, we met on the channel in the group and Facebook called SOS growth hacks. For the listeners out there, I’ll definitely recommend joining it. It’s probably one of the most active groups, I’m involved in on Facebook, and you tend to see a lot of interesting things.

You can ignore the name in terms of growth hacks. It’s really founders and SAS pros as well looking to try and improve their business and increase growth. So it was lucky that we found Tina to join us today. And Tina is one of the founders of social web suite.

She’ll do a much better job of explaining it. And we’ll jump into that in a second. But so Tina, just Thanks for joining. And maybe you want to just give us a little bit of an overview of what social web suite is and how you help your customers.

Tina Todorovic
Okay, so social web suite is a social media platform, deeply integrated with WordPress. So basically, if you have a WordPress blog, we pulled all your data and everything into our platform. So you don’t need to copy and paste like you would do with other platforms out there. However, if you don’t have a WordPress blog, I mean, first of all, why don’t you have it, but let’s go, let’s move from there. If you don’t have it, you can users with the RSS feed YouTube. And you can just schedule and send messages like the social messages as well. We are also proud that we have a seven minute setup. Basically, that means that we set everything for you. And we schedule everything based on social media influencers, like best recommendations for the times, best times to post on. So you don’t have to think about anything, everything is set and you just check it out. If you like it, just click Yes. And that’s it. Everything is set for you to to like start sharing your products and services to the world.

That’s pretty much it.

Andrew Michael
Yeah, what you said as well, like if you don’t have a WordPress blog, you should I think it’s very interesting, like your stats of how many websites actually run by WordPress. And I think the last time I checked is run between 30 to 40%. Maybe you know this?

Tina Todorovic
Yes, I believe them. So the last know the exact digits but like it’s like 32, or 33% of all the websites in the world are run on WordPress, which is really good, right?

Andrew Michael
Yeah, absolutely. So interesting as well, like you mentioned that you one of the other platforms, it’s deeply integrated into WordPress, and it’s built on top of it. So I like the concept is why I get it is typically with the social media management platforms, you need to go in and copy the links across, schedule them four times and send them so from my understanding, like your tool really automates that process a lot for years or so whenever a new blog post is post on your WordPress site, it’s automatically there to be able to be scheduled and sent out using such web suites, correct?

Tina Todorovic
Yes, yes, we have a few options. So basically, whenever you publish or scheduled to be published, whenever it’s like published on a WordPress site, that post is automatically shared to all the social profiles that you connect, right. As well as if you schedule it to be repeated afterwards, then we repeated afterwards to like other social profiles as well.

Andrew Michael
Cool. And what was the decision then as well to focus specifically on WordPress, like what led you there? What was the issue? Okay, we really need to focus and double down on WordPress.

Tina Todorovic
Okay, so our storeys, so my husband and I are both co founders, and we have been involved with the WordPress community for a few years now. And we have been involved in volunteer animal in organising work camp Toronto, for three years 2014 15 and 16. My husband also wrote a book about the WordPress theme development. So we have been, as I said, in WordPress community for so long, and we have a plugin for a buffer that connects WordPress site with buffer right. And we had a lot of users asking us for additional features, which we couldn’t really add to the plugin

Because those features are added by buffer and we are not really connected with buffer, right. So we just made that plugin. And that’s how we saw that there is a potential in the market. And that’s how we just sat down one day and like, oh, let’s make our own social media platform. And that’s how it all started. Sounds Oh, sorry. Yeah. And then so maybe you want to let us know, like, where you’re at today? how long you’ve been going actually, as well. And how many users do you currently have?

Okay, so we have been in data from 2017, March to January 2018. So gathering users feedback. And then we have been officially like live from January to the 2018. So that means like a year and a half. Yeah, so we are fairly new.

Andrew Michael
And how many sites in total using such web suite?

Tina Todorovic
Ah, ok. So basically, you can see that publicly, we have people that are new, not using us with sites, but like for the sites. We have over 700 sites. And you can as I said, you can see because our plugin is

Andrew Michael
on a wordpress.org repo. And you can see there that active site usage is over 700 I’d like it seems like even some good traction there began a year and a half in public and have over 700 users on the platform. So during this time, then as well, you must have during this time, you must have as well learned quite a bit as well in terms of usage and trying to understand sort of what churn and retention looks like four years in new business. Yes. Yeah. So you say that yes, here with enthusiasm. What Why is that?

Tina Todorovic
Well, like I and I’m guessing everybody who, like start out, they have to figure it out, like a bunch of stuff. Right going on? Yeah, we were lucky. As I said, we were lucky that we were in beta. So we were free. And we had a really good, like, we were lucky that our users are giving us like a lot of valuable feedback. And then that’s like the number one thing that I think it’s for reducing churn, right, because if you have users that are providing you with feedback, you know how to fight those stuff in the, in the future, right. And sorry, I’m like a little bit under the weather. So my throat is a little bit sore. Sorry, no problem. So that’s how we are, we started fighting it. Basically, we tried a few different approaches. When you have a soft, or you always try to be like the best UI and easiest for users to figure it out. Like they don’t need to think about it, how to use it and those types of things. And that’s, that’s the number one thing that everybody tries to be good at. But if your software is not that simple, and if you are trying to do more stuff, not just like one thing, like for example, you know, screen cast, you only have like a screen share. And that’s pretty much it. And it’s also self explanatory, you don’t need to like think about how to use that like, right, or like a green screen or those types of things. But like, if you want to do more, then you cannot be that simple. And you have to figure it out how to get your users to be able to use it like easily. So that’s that was our number one goal from the feedback that we have received from a bunch of users, right. So what we and we decided that we were going to talk about it. So what we tried and succeed was that, first of all, obviously, your documentation has to be on top. But that With that being said, I’ve noticed from the customer support that not a lot of people actually beat. And although you’re trying to have like everything in your docs, at the end of the day, trust me, people will be always contacting you rather than to read your documentation. But the videos helps a lot. So if you can basically record the short videos, like two minutes, one minute, three minute, it’s better if you have 1030 minute videos and one half an hour video because simply people don’t have time nowadays. And I don’t want to watch a longer video. Yeah. And if they are just looking for a thing, like, you know, one or two features, how to do they are not going to go and watch like your half an hour video. They’re just going to watch it for two or three minutes. And that’s it, they just going to find that that one or two features that they want to implement. Right? Yeah. So that helped us like a lot. And I mean, like, probably over 80% of our support dropped when we introduced the videos. So that’s like, huge, huge, huge. So that’s, that’s the number one that we really health us as well as. So basically, we recorded all those videos, we put them on Vimeo and YouTube and we put them within our platform. Okay, so if you are inside and you you know, scheduling messages, or you do anything, you can just always click on the video and it shows up shoulder all the videos from that for that feature. So you can watch it right there. You don’t need to go anywhere.

Andrew Michael
Yeah, making really contextualising focused dance.

Tina Todorovic
Yes, yes. So that’s that’s the thing that basically helped a lot as well as with the turn. Because, you know, when they come and they can see that there is a hole Okay, yeah, there is a video here. They they will not simply go away immediately. Right. They will try since they’re already there and register, they will try to, you know, use the platform.

Andrew Michael
Yeah, I think this is like speaks to a couple of different things like the one you mentioned, people don’t really view the docks. But there are certain people that do you docs, there’s other people for video. So like one thing you’ve looked at now than others with is like having different mediums in which people can consume content and can understand and learn about your product is really critical. And then the second one, as you mentioned, like really having contextualise messaging. So it’s not about just like setting up a drip sequence where you try and teach your users about every each and every individual feature and how to get the best use out of it. But really making it timely and focused. So when they’re actually trying to do an action have information there for them?

Tina Todorovic
Yes, yes. And then it’s on the top of our platform. So basically like a button with a different colour. And you can just click it and that’s it like it’s there. So in general, just close it. And you’ll you’ll continue with the creating of messages. So it’s like really, really easy for users to figure it out. Although we do have a drip campaign as well. Yeah, so we do both. But we did a lot of testing. Obviously, we did a lot of testing, we we introduced video, basically, on onboarding as well. So when you on board, you the video pops up, and then you can watch it if you want. And then we had the tool tip that basically, you know, like small that used to be in Windows like the small. What’s it called? z? Do you remember that? paperclip, right? Yeah, I know. So the similar to this, right? So the tube that goes everywhere and like explained to you which different parts of the product are and those types of things. What we found out is that from videos, we had 100% subscriber rates. So basically, because we we offer free trial for 14 days, you don’t need to have a credit card. And so you can try it for free. If you don’t like it, you can just go Yeah, from Vito, we had like a whoever gets the video get like, immediately subscribe to us. For two tips. It’s not 100%. So basically, the veto hell, like obviously, videos is the number one for everything in the drip campaign that we also do in the 14 day sequence. It’s also a customised drip campaign. So for example, we follow our user what our actions, so we didn’t finish onboarding, or if they didn’t share anything, that’s a different obviously, message sent to them like email. And in every email, it’s a click to our videos, like the videos are embedded. So basically, if you haven’t connected and it’s social profiles, and you want to share your message to the world, like via social programmes, that’s like, obviously have to do that, right. Because other way, there is no way to share it. So we send an email, and we send the videos how to connect or Facebook, corporate Facebook or Twitter, LinkedIn, etc. Yeah, so that’s like also customise as well.

Andrew Michael
So you’ve got a success and a lot of these videos themselves. And I’m interested as well, just to understand the process about going and sending them up. How did you go about producing these videos? And what are the tools that you use? I imagine that the team can be that big as well that you have a dedicated video producers are interested to sort of here.

Tina Todorovic
So because I am the one like doing a bunch of stuff, obviously, as everybody here and I’m not a developer, so if you ask me technical questions, I don’t know if I can answer all of them. So we have a team of developers working for us, but I tried to do everything else. And I was the one recording the videos, because simply, I am the user, right? I’m not a developer, I am the user and I’m the average user. And I know like what are the pain points of the users? Yeah. So if you want to record the video, and if you are a developer, let your other technical, non technical, co founder record the videos, that’s my two cents. So I have been recording them and I have been sending us sending them to. So we have the we found the two over voice voiceover that basically I set up the script, I wrote the script, I record the video, and then I send it to two people that we found for voiceovers that they don’t have an accent, simply because I think it’s easier for people to understand if you know, native speakers and English speakers are speaking right? And I’m not. So that’s why we are we figured it out. And one is a male voice. One is a female voice. And they’re really good. I mean, we like them. And then all that we send to our front end developer who is also who, who is also good with video editing, like that was his job like 20 years ago. So everything is within a team.

Andrew Michael
So you had people as well, then Tony, did you have these sort of tools on the market that allow you to sort of do screen recordings and then create? I think so like, Wisteria has a tool called soap box. And likewise, if there’s another tool in the Michael bloom, there’s a couple that allow you to do the screen recordings, and voiceovers Was this something that you looked into? You can

Tina Todorovic
look into it, I didn’t quite like them. The only two that I like his campaign easier. Okay, about two because I am not a producer. And I’m not a video editor. And I don’t know much about it. And I don’t have time to learn all that stuff, simply because we were lucky to have that front end developer that knows stuff, right? So I have to learn. So but he’s using Cortese I know that for video editing, so basically he edits if, like all the videos, he had music in the background, like you know, put voiceover and everything that needs to be done. So I and I know that he’s using that for my screen screen share, like just the screen screen. So the videos I am using, like simply the screen just die or something like it’s really cheap, I can send you the the the exact name and the link. And I mean, they have a free version. But even if you are paying it’s like maybe 20 or $30 per year. Like they’re like super cheap in there. Yes. And they are super, super useful. And as I said they are they are great in if you’re not knowledgeable, they’d like all the all the things that you need to do, right? If you just want to record a simple video and send it to your users. That’s like pretty much it. Yeah. And obviously, if you want to record the like, professional videos, that’s different stuff. But this is for

Andrew Michael
Yeah, yeah, but I think definitely as well, specifically at the early stages, all the sort of more rough around the edges, Mexico, but more personal and like more human as well. So I think oftentimes, people try and have perfection from day one. And it’s just not what’s necessary at the time and this specific thing about your users. I’m interested as well, like you mentioned, and it’s definitely something like I think a lot of people make in the early stage as well, when it comes to like writing documentation or putting together videos, is we often forget how complicated our products can be to newbies. And you mentioned like yourself, being a non technical co-founder like, you would definitely advise others going through this process. Do the same. What led you to this? Like why did you think this is important?

Tina Todorovic
What well, simply because I wanted to reduce our customer support, right? And then and then the other thing is, I have been in this world for like a long time and working like living a living and working with a developer, I will trying a new software, you always I am I’m the type of person that always goes and read the documentation or what we do before I actually contact anybody. If I don’t like if I want to try it if I have to figure it out how to use something. So basically, coming from my perspective, I would like for like I hate when people doesn’t have documentation or they don’t have videos. And now I have to rely on their emails. And I you know, you don’t know if they’re going to reply immediately. And because we we had an agency before, and we have a lot of clients, we use a lot of software. And we needed to, you know, we needed to implement those authors within a period of time. So I didn’t really have time to waste on like waiting for, for them to reply via email, and then via email, the communications can be misunderstood. Yeah. So you you go back and forth a few times, instead of like just getting one video and explaining one functions what to do. That’s it. Demetri like, that’s my two cents. And as I said, as I said at the beginning, that’s why it’s really important to have, you know, short videos, like explaining things, how it works, basically, how I recorded the dollars is, I did all the things, right. So like, click here, do this, this and those types of things. So that’s like, those are like instructional videos. Those are like different than promotional, but instructional videos are really, really important. More maybe than promotional.

Andrew Michael
Absolutely. for turning special. Yeah. And so these videos, they all came out of like user feedback that you’re receiving in the early days. What was the process like during your beta period? Because obviously, I think like, as you mentioned, you know, the user feedback at early stage is definitely one of the most powerful ways that you can improve the product, which ultimately is going to decrease the trend for you. How did you go about collecting feedback from your users? early stage? What was was a some sort of methodical process? or How did you do that?

Tina Todorovic
So we had a lot of different things. So we had a semi automatic automatic process, as well as I was the one actually send an email to everybody. Although people think that there is always usually a script there. At the beginning, it wasn’t really. So I was the one sending emails, and I was the one like communicating with the people. And I don’t know if everybody saw that. It was me. And not just like some are both are bought somewhere. Maybe that’s why they replied, I don’t know. Or we were just lucky. The The other thing that I also found out when like talking to people, the The other thing that helped us as well, and it’s like the, we call it onboarding desert. So basically, the onboarding process, you want to make it as easy as possible. And yet, you want to put everything in that onboarding that is essential for your software to work. So for example, as I said, like at the beginning, we didn’t have that onboarding process, because we thought that we came from the perception that if you want to share something to your social profiles, obviously, the first thing to do is to connect your social profiles, right? I mean, make sense, right? Well, not everybody thinks that. Right? So we figured it out a bit. So when people start asking us, oh, well, nothing has been shared. And I’m like, Yeah, but you didn’t really connect any social profiles. So that’s why maybe it’s not being shared. And so that’s how we figured out that we have to have like some kind of onboarding process, to tell people what they have to do in order to use our software. So and then, and I’m pretty sure that everybody went through as much as V. That visa and onboarding process is changing. First of all, simply how you are involving and a software, and then from the users feedback as well. So you are adding some stuff or removing some stuff and those types of things. And at the beginning, I told you that we had like that seven minutes set up simply because we wanted to, like we try to make that onboarding as best as possible for our users. Yeah. Because you know, and nobody has time, everybody’s like, busy, they want to make it work. And that’s it. For sure. So that’s the other thing that everybody should have, like the onboarding.

Andrew Michael
I think with onboarding, it’s one of those tricky things in the sense of time, because when you think about it, like the end user psychology perspective, the first time they signing up for your product, they’re coming in with this excitement that your tool solution is going to potentially solve their problem. So the most attention you’re probably ever going to get from your users is going to be during that onboarding phase. And a lot of us sec, we typically try and like think for the how do we reduce friction? How do we make it as simple as possible and like not bother, like in inverted commas bother our users. But I think it’s really important to understand like, there’s two different types of users typically, as well, there is multiple types, actually. But typically, there’s a type of us that just wants to get on with it gets started you a little bit more sophisticated. Whereas you have on the other side, you have your users at one of your handheld and want to be shared and striking a balance of when it comes to onboarding to make sure that you are able to cater to both of those, like sort of levels of sophistication, I think is also very important.

Tina Todorovic
Yes, yes, yes, we have the I also offer free demos to anybody who wants. And I can set it up everything like while we’re talking here, like live, I can set up everything for the user, so the user can see how everything works, if that’s something that people like. So basically, as you mentioned, there are like, different types of users, somebody likes to do everything by their. So that’s why you have to have like the onboarding and videos and documentation because they will simply try to do everything. But they like to, you know, figure out their their stuff. And then others likes to be shown how to do things. So that’s why you have to have him like all the options for all the users.

Andrew Michael
Exactly. I think in the early days, so it’s quite difficult. And you need to make sure that you’re prioritising and spending your time in the best way possible, as well.

Tina Todorovic
Yes, yes.

Andrew Michael
Cool. So we spoke a little bit about onboarding and self, I think, because as well, it’s still relatively young, now you bought a year and a half, to sort of like being out of beta? Is there any sort of other things that you’ve looked at, or you’ve tried to work on to try to increase retention?

Tina Todorovic
You have to be responsive, like the customer support, you have to be responsive. So if user scab for x sample, we are connecting with like different social platforms, right? And sometimes those social platforms doesn’t work or the user change the password. For example, if the user change the password on their feet, Facebook, they have to authorise us again, and that’s not there is nothing that we can do about it. Right? Unfortunately, trust me, we tried. And so those types of things when user actually contact you and say, okay, you know, my I cannot post a Facebook anymore. You have to, you have to figure it out what’s going on? And tell them Oh, yeah, sorry, it seems that this this this, please, you know, do this, this, this. And that’s it. So you have to try to answer your users as quickly as possible. Yeah, obviously, there will always be people that are just here to lurk. And you know, they are, they are affecting our turn rate, unfortunately, but they are not truly the users. The other thing that also help is to be, basically, to be good on your website. So basically, just put on your website, like simple words, what your product does, do not do use, like some marketing jargon that nobody understands. Because you will get a lot like your turn will not be good. And I can tell you right now, because people will don’t know. They will come to your website, they will think that’s the solution they need, and then they will figure it out. That’s not Yeah. So that’s, that’s other. The other thing that, that we learn, and that is really important, maybe you will have less users trying, but those users will stick with you, because that’s that they came to to try your platform simply because that’s what they need, right?

Andrew Michael
Yeah, sure. Yet, what you’re saying is making sure that you’re learning the promise that you make from the marketing side with the value that? Yes, it’s interesting, like, how did you What did you actually start out with when you came to this realisation? That you’re you needed to fix the communication on the site? Like, how did you start promoting the product to begin with work and then realised that it wasn’t the right way to be doing it?

Tina Todorovic
You know, what you actually want to I read a bunch of stuff online, and like a lot of books, and I will send you the links to like, the the few books that helped me. So you, you, you have to read a lot, right. And the one thing that actually sticks, on my mind, is that use the jargon from your customer support. Yeah, so how the customers are contacting you like what, like the same jargon that they are actually asking you for some stuff? That’s the same wording that you will use on your on your site? Yeah. Because that’s, that’s what they want. Right. That’s, that’s their pain points.

That’s the one thing that we did. And changed a little bit the wording, because I know, as I said, I know because we are fairly new. And you know, when you when you release your new website, and you want to target your product, you want everybody to use it. So you’re trying to be broad, and you’re trying to be, you know, to use some words that are like, trendy, and everybody’s using it. And you think that’s cool. I don’t think that works. And I actually know that doesn’t work. So you have to be on top be within your users. So basically use the same jargon that they’re using, and that that’s how people going to find you like the valuable people that are going to stay with you.

Andrew Michael
Yeah, absolutely. I think this as well as like a very, very good point. When it comes to cons and communication, I think there’s different stages and different phases of growth, when it’s critical to talk about different things. So like, definitely at the early stage, where you just getting started, there’s no brand recognition on your behalf, like people really need to understand that get what you do in a matter of seconds. Yes. So if you’re trying to fill your page up with marketing jargon, then you just lose your customers from the get go. So it’s important to be specific, I really liked the point you made as well of like actually listening to and using the words that come out of your customers mouth. Essentially, it’s at the end of the day, that’s what they understand. That’s how they communicate. And maybe the way you talk about your tool or where you see a tool is not how they do and the more you try and shove it down their throats, like you just committed dead ends and hit the wall. Yes, yeah. So this sort of you are collecting this customer feedback coming through support? Did you do any other sort of surveys or work with your customers to understand what copy should go into the site? Was it just purely from what was coming through in the support channel?

Tina Todorovic
For the side? Well, for the side, we talked to a few people as well, all the people that are doing this for a long time. And we gather their feedback, as well as our users feedback, as well as we are using the hot jar facebook pixel, like everything, Google Analytics, and like a bunch of other stuff as well. So we are gathering users feedback, like the whole drawer is really good. I would recommend to everybody. I don’t know if they have a free plan. I think that they have a free plan. I’m not sure now we are like we have been paying for it forever. So I don’t know. But yeah, we are paid for it. But it’s really well worth it. And that’s that’s the thing that you should be using. We are using it on our platform as well within the platform. So we actually can follow up where users click, and what if they are stuck on somewhere so we can improve that? That particular feature?

Andrew Michael
Yep. So just for the listeners as well, because I don’t know if you know, I there was 14 actually wicked Archer. Sorry. Yeah. So I chose actually provides this tool of suite, a suite of tools for feedback and analytics. So if there are things like session recordings, where you can actually watch it Oh, yes,

Tina Todorovic
yes, yes, that’s what we actually use. Yeah.

Andrew Michael
So you can see where people are clicking and scrolling and how they interact with your such media is super powerful in the early days, also using our previous startup, like, when you really try and understand how users are using your tool and what interacting with that is like become invaluable and understanding where you need to fix things and understand like where people are getting stuck.

Tina Todorovic
Yes, that’s perfect, even for the website as well, simply because you can see where if they are clicking only on your homepage, or they are clicking on some other pages and which is really important as well, you can see there as well as Google Analytics. So you can maybe work around those pages and make them a better than the rest of the beta is because of everybody’s going to you know, homepage and maybe two or three pages pricing is what number one after like homepage, obviously, everybody wants to know how. So those are the things and then those are the things that I would recommend.

Andrew Michael
Very cool. So with this sort of knowledge now starting a new company now and having a new software, like if you had to do it over again, and you’re starting it a new software, and you see retention is not so great. What is one of the first things you’d want to do differently? Or you’d want to do it in your company, if you had to get started looking at retention and churn?

Tina Todorovic
Hmm.

I guess well, first of all, I guess we would release the product earlier. We are we are a little bit OCD. So we we waited until we were like hundred percent sure that everything is working and everything is good. And you know, now it’s valuable. But But you know, we’re all talking about MVP. And yes, you should release it. As soon as it’s like MVP, you don’t need to wait longer for together users feedback. So that’s, that’s number one. The the second one, as I said, Now that now that I know about the how much emails help us and our user onboarding help us, I will do that immediately. Like I wouldn’t wait. Because, yes, because we are we were adding more features. And you know, trying to expand our offerings from the obvious the users feedback, because that’s the other feedback that we were receiving, oh, they had this, look at this, when when are you going to implement and both of the things. We were trying to do that and we were actually adding more features all the time, but maybe be onboarding is the number one and then and then adding more features afterwards?

Andrew Michael
Yeah, I think it’s one of the things that often gets left behind quite a bit. It’s so much demand from customers, and you’re trying to meet the needs. Yes. But you tend to forget as well, I think by having a really solid onboarding, meeting the number one need, which is initial problem that can’t.

Tina Todorovic
Exactly, exactly. And I was also talking to Aaron Aaron Kroll. And that, I think, last year, and he had some valuable feedback for like all of us, they were like a webinar or something like that. And explaining SAS owners how to, you know, better retain the users and those sorts of things. And the thing that strikes me the most is like, find at least one aha moment for your user. Yeah. And that’s pretty much it that that basically sums up if you the user comes to your software the first time and you don’t have that aha moment, then. Yeah, you’re losing it. That’s pretty much daily. So you have to find it, you know, at least one for the user to actually season.

Andrew Michael
Yeah. And so that I’m a ministry like that point in time when they first see value from your solution. Okay, yes. Now, I know why this. Why I need this tool. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, very cool. Tina, thank you very much for joining the show today. It’s been a pleasure having a chat with you and learning a little bit more about social web suite. If for those listeners sack Is there any other advice you’d like to leave them with or anything that you recommend them checking out before you say goodbye?

Tina Todorovic
Oh, that’s pretty much it. If anybody has any questions, you can always find me at Tina, social liberty.com. Send me an email. And I will be happy to help with our experience, share our experience, and hopefully it will help somebody else. And I guess that’s

Andrew Michael
cool. All right. Well, thanks very much, Tina. It’s been a pleasure having you today and wish you best of luck now as you go forward to this next phase of growth.

Tina Todorovic
Thank you so much. And thank you for having me here. And I hope that I helped at least two people out there with my advice is

Andrew Michael
absolutely. Thank you.

Tina Todorovic
Thanks. Bye.